Posted by Don Rasmussen on 11/18/08 7:50 PM   [Newer: Ron Paul Answers your Questions] [Older: And the winner is...YOU!]

Apparently having learned nothing from Nevada, Arizona's 4th legislative district GOP meeting was abruptly halted Monday night when Chairman Bob Burges realized he didn't have the votes to elect his delegates to the county convention or re-elect his friends to leadership positions.

The reason? A large group of Constitutional Republican Reformers including many Ron Paul supporters showed up and established a clear majority. The flustered chair, upon realizing his predicament, gaveled the meeting to a close without electing delegates at all, ordered the sheriff's department to clear the hall, and had the lights shut off.

The reformers quickly gathered in the parking lot determined to finish the meeting. When Chairman Burges had the exterior lights cut as well, the group found a janitor and had them turned back on. They established a quorum, elected a slate of delegates, and new leadership.

I understand that Chairman Burges is a genuinely decent man, but these tactics reflect the deep dysfunction that now haunts the GOP at every level. For my part, I hope that former Chairman Burges and the old guard in LD-4, as well as around the country, come to realize that our ideas ARE Republican ideas and begin to smooth the way for a new generation of leaders rather than causing further erosion of the party by standing in the way.

Posted 11/18/08 10:29 PM BrentBurk Lompoc, CA

If we establish a quorum, what does that mean? Wouldn't the GOP have to recognize it in some form? And since it's Ronpaulicans, wouldn't they be ignored?

Posted 11/18/08 10:31 PM mcheffer Tucson, AZ

Booya!

Posted 11/19/08 12:15 AM Jstme Melbourne, FL

And the GOP scratches its head and asks us for help. Oops, not us but the status quo republicans, right?

Posted 11/19/08 01:13 AM Brent Stafford O Fallon, MO

Check this out. Newly elected St. Charles County Missouri GOP Chairman, Tom Kuypers, admits he rigged Missouri's 2nd Congressional Convention to exclude properly elected delegates http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rplrNr8I8s

Posted 11/19/08 02:16 AM Andrew76 Ballwin, MO

Oh my god.. this is what I'm talking about!!!! I don't have the proper words to describe my intensity of support in this effort. Cheers to all involved! Throw those bastards out! cheers, Andrew

Posted 11/19/08 05:03 AM JosephNegrelli Middle Island, NY

These efforts to undermine the rules sre disgusting. I am still pissed about Nevada.

Posted 11/19/08 06:22 AM bigsal31 brooklyn, NY

well done!!! They may have shut the lights off, but they will never silence our voices. The GOP will soon learn to adhere to what the people want or become obsolete!

Posted 11/19/08 06:28 AM AKJones Camp Hill, PA

I am incredibly encouraged by this. Listen up y'all. Most of these meetings CLAIM that they run the meetings according to Roberts Rules of Order, so FIND OUT if they do. THEN, learn "become a parliamentarian" so to speak, meaning LEARN THE RULES. For example, the agenda of the meeting MUST be approved by the members. If your issue is not on the agenda, make a motion to include it OR vote against the agenda. Also, the meeting CANNOT be ajourned without a majority vote of the membership. If they are wasting time on an issue, you can move to VOTE IMMEDIATELY. If you think their issue is BS, you can move to POSTPONE INDEFINETLY (ie, junk it). It you don't know your parliamentary rights, you can make a QUESTION OF PRIVILEGE. (though, they probably don't know the rules, so have a copy). Hey, one of you guys running this site, I got a good concise guide to Roberts Rules from teh Georgia County Commissioners online last year. The link is broken, but I can upload it to you. Contact me!

Posted 11/19/08 06:30 AM Fabian BROOKLYN, NY

It starts at the local level ... now we just need to learn about politics at the local level so we can engage them effectively

Posted 11/19/08 06:32 AM mwarden Hamilton, OH

is there any coverage of this in the MSM?

Posted 11/19/08 06:54 AM therosethorn Scottsdale, AZ

THIS IS A CLASSIC CASE OF DISCRIMINATION AND A LAWYER WOULD BE HANDY ABOUT NOW. There is absolutely no excuse for this behavior and the people who did this need to be accountable and liable for it.

Posted 11/19/08 06:55 AM therosethorn Scottsdale, AZ

Is there a video of this online?

Posted 11/19/08 07:04 AM fadestyle Walnut Bottom, PA

In law, a quorum is the minimum number of members of a deliberative body necessary to conduct the business of that group. Ordinarily, this is a majority of the people expected to be there, although many bodies may have a lower or higher quorum. list of links to roberts rules: http://tinyurl.com/rrulesbook http://www.jimslaughter.com/robertsrules.ht m http://www.robertsrules.org/ http://www.robertsrules.com/

Posted 11/19/08 07:28 AM AKJones Camp Hill, PA

Hey, here's the link to the concise roberts rules: http://69.25.92.169/static/ParliamentaryProcedure.pdf If it doesn't come up - google 'Georgia commissioners roberts rules' and google will make an html document link on the fly in the search results (should be indented under #1).

Posted 11/19/08 07:37 AM sweetliberty San Rafael, CA

Bravo! :)

Posted 11/19/08 08:42 AM emb021 Tamarac, FL

AKJones has made some good points about parliamentary procedure, but he made a few mistakes. * an agenda is not written in stone. Members can always introduce new business via a motion during the New Business portion of the meeting. Such items do NOT need to be on the agenda. A chair who insists that items be on the agenda in advance or you can bring them up is a chair out of control. * If you want to force a vote on a motion, its "Call the Question". Also, this needs a 2/3 vote, not a majority. Some other points: Quorum is the number of people you need to have an official meeting. This will be stated in your orgs bylaws. If its not specified, its a majority of the membership. The chair can't adjourn the meeting without a vote of the membership. There is NO SUCH THING as 'gaveling close' a meeting. The chair does not RULE a meeting. It's the members who do so, because everything that is approved is done so BY THE MEMBERS. This is yet another sign of an out of control chair. Don't know parliamentary procedure??? Contact a local chapter of the NAP (National Association of Parliamentarians) or AIP (American Institute of Parliamentarians) for help. Many will be happy to help you out. Get a copy of "Robert's Rules of Order, Newly Revised" (aka RONR), as well as "RONR In Brief". RONR is the parliamentary authority of most orgs in this country, and the In Brief book is intended to help you learn the rules. FYI- am a member of both groups.

Posted 11/19/08 10:10 AM JohnKern Apopka, FL

Knowledge is Power. It's time for us to educate ourselves. The average real world worker/American doesn't have a clue what is going on in politics or how to be involved. Campaign For Liberty needs to help to organize a "how to" on getting involved, and a "education" on how things work in local politics. Time to turn off the t.v. and start reading.

Posted 11/19/08 10:14 AM Caleb Kinley Hot Springs, AR

So, does this mean the Paulites get to keep those seats or could they be sabotaged out of them as was done in Missouri and elsewhere?

Posted 11/19/08 10:47 AM AnnetteFreeman gilbert, AZ

I heard that all elected members from the quorum were sworn in by a judge the next day.

Posted 11/19/08 11:54 AM PerfectoUnoJr Canyon Country, CA

Did they have enough votes for a quorum, this time around? I realize that they didn't have the votes necessary for one, in Nevada and that ill legitimized everything they did from that point on. From what freemanusa said, I'm assuming they did?

Posted 11/19/08 12:13 PM blissful Columbia Heights, MN

This story is exactly why I lost my campaign against a seated very left wing Democrat. The GOP rank and file, some 20% to 30% failed the vote for me because I am a constitutional Ron Paul Republican. Shame on them. I am planning to run again and not depend on any Republican party support, perhaps with the reality check I had now, in 2010 I can plan a successful win gaining the general population voter support. running for office is hard, even harder when voters with a R next to their name fail to support a Republican.

Posted 11/19/08 12:20 PM C00kieM0nster Oxnard, CA

Fantastic posts Emb, and AK. More bread crumbs :) TYVM!!

Posted 11/19/08 2:22 PM muffydon Surprise, AZ

As a LD-4 member witnessing the events of November 17 in Arizona, I am pleased to report that the snowball has started rolling down the hill. I hope Republicans learn to return to the basics of the Party.

Posted 11/19/08 2:26 PM Arizona PC Apache Junction, AZ

Today the LD. Tomorrow the County. Then the State! JOIN YOUR LOCAL GOVT PARTY and MAKE IT HAPPEN. Our AZ leaders deserve thanks for this one (JG, DE, ...)

Posted 11/19/08 3:01 PM muffydon Surprise, AZ

Letter: Hidden Bailout and Tax Shelter for Banks The story was on page A-9 of the November 11 edition of the Arizona Republic. The story was about a change in the tax code that would benefit banks by allowing a bank to off-set profits with losses from a bank they acquired. The story, per various internet articles, goes deeper than that and should outrage every fiscal conservative in the nation. Seems that an IRS notice 2008-83 was adopted on October 1 that amended Section 382 of the Tax Code to remove limits, for banks only, on tax shelters where acquired banks losses could be used, sometimes retroactively, to off-set profits by the acquiring bank reducing future tax payments. No wonder several companies (most recently American Express) have become banking institutions. This certainly helped Wells Fargo acquire Wachovia. I have been amazed at the constantly changing implementation of the $700 billion bail-out and give-aways such as this. Amending the tax code by interpretation is clearly poor public policy. I have no dog in this fight, but trust those in power will reverse this ruling and limit use of this tax shelter. Robbery is supposed to be a crime.

Posted 11/19/08 4:33 PM Joel Cole Shelby Township, MI

We should definately get this kind of action going elsewhere. I am not affiliated with any political party but have been tempted in the past, and now more than ever, to join the Republican party. I think we can make a difference and if we push for this constitutional change, we can make it happen.

Posted 11/19/08 6:20 PM brentvannmorgan St. George, UT

Thats what i'm talkin about, if they don't want to follow the rules and they think that they are dictators, then how a bout a big welcome to democracy. boot em and carry on. Power to the people

Posted 11/19/08 6:24 PM BaneMaler Lawrence, KS

Here is an audio seminar of the Roberts Rules http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xf_re2kZ5o

Posted 11/19/08 7:16 PM Imperial League City, TX

I have been studying parliamentary procedure for almost three years now. Next year, in 2009, I will be getting active in the local GOP. Suffice it to say, my rulebook will be ready.

Posted 11/19/08 7:49 PM TmBdt Allendale, MI

FWIW,here's a book on Robert's Rules I've used in the past, and is currently on my book shelf. I think it's a good read to start with. http://www.amazon.com/Roberts-Rules-Plain-English-Easy/dp/0060787791/ref=sr_1_1? ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1227152799&sr=1-1 TmBdt

Posted 11/20/08 06:40 AM Break your chains Byron, GA

Folks need to start taking cameras to these kinds of events. Could you imagine if someone had shot footage of this event? CNN iReport all-the-way

Posted 11/20/08 07:04 AM blissful Columbia Heights, MN

Say folks, Roberts Rules of Orders, sound great. From personal experience in Minnesota this year, participaitng in the Republican Party from Caucus to State convention as a delegate I can state the power brokers in the party disregard the rules. Same for Nevada, and many other states. The GOP power brokers have no intention to change or relinquish power to the masses. Video taping events are prohibited by party leaders, also the events are a private organization and not subject to courts. Good luck folks, I do wish you all the best.

Posted 11/20/08 08:20 AM muffydon Surprise, AZ

Camera at meeting The meeting was video taped and documented. The results are presumed to be legal and can only be invalidated by the State Republican Party ignoring truth. I was a witness to the event and credentials, rules, nominations, and results,

Posted 11/20/08 09:50 AM Purist Tucson, AZ

We held 4 organization elections last Saturday with no reported problems. In two LD's, two members were elected as 1st Vice chair and everyone who put their name on the ballot was elected as state committeemen. Granted, we do not have the members LD 4 has and are unable to "take over" the meetings, we are making inroads. So far, we have received little resistance from LD leadership.

Posted 11/22/08 12:12 PM muffydon Surprise, AZ

LD-4 Meeting on video tape are available: Here are the links Video One http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwCEd-G87QY Video Two http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHqVS-hVyYc

Posted 11/24/08 06:24 AM aadweddings Fletcher, NC

the link for the youtube of this event http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTZ0QmcHqpo