Posted by Don Rasmussen on 11/05/08 08:54 AM Last updated 11/05/08 11:11 AM   [Newer: A Rigged System] [Older: Election Night Successes]

Liberty PAC Wins - Ron Paul, Paul Broun, Roscoe Bartlett, Doug Lamborn, Denny Rehberg, Scott Garrett, John Culberson, Michelle Bachman, Walter Jones

Jeff Flake also won in Arizona.

Virgil Goode is too close to call. He has a 466 vote edge, but faces a recount.

Tom McClintock has a 451 vote advantage with mail-in votes left to be counted.

Medical Marijuana is now the law in Michigan and Massachusetts became the first state to effectively decriminalize small amounts. MPP has a chart of all related initiatives here.

3rd Party Performances, Presidential (97% reporting, subject to change):

Libertarian Party - 485,325 (+18% over 2004)

Constitution Party - 173,166 (+17% over 2004)

Green Party - 141,319 (+15% over 2004)

All Voters - 120,638,000 (-1% under 2004)

Posted 11/05/08 08:57 AM StatusQuoJoe Phoenix, AZ

Congrats Jeff Flake! We think different here in AZ that's why we don't have daylight savings time :)

Posted 11/05/08 09:13 AM Android Hales Corners, WI

Its a shame we won't know how many write-ins there were for Ron Paul across the country, I am sure we all would have liked to see that.

Posted 11/05/08 09:20 AM smashysmashy dover, NH

It's good our numbers went up, but I was hoping for so much more. A lot of fellow C4Lers are quite depressed by this election, we all know why, but really I think this is the best thing possible for our movement. Let's face it, we plead a damn good case and gave concrete evidence behind our ideas, yet few wanted to listen. There is an impending doom about to take place in the next 4 years with our economy, our liberties and with our foreign relations. If McCain were to be in office, they would continue to blame the "conservatives." But this is good, put Obama in office and give him a liberal congress. We all are predicting how bad it is going to be. Let it happen. People don't want to hear the liberty message now. They think it is a joke. We'll see how much of a joke it is after the first year of Obama's presidency. This is the best thing that could happen to our movement. We will build this country back up from the very bottom... I just hope we survive through it. But this brings me to a very very important point. I was thinking about it when my moron Obama colleagues were rubbing his win in my face this morning. We CAN NOT be "rub it in your face" Ron Paulites. Trust me, I can't wait to say "I told you so. Did you listen to me? No!" but that is just going to make the sheeple hate us more. So let's continue to spread the word of liberty in a positive manner. As tempting as it will be in the next 4 years to rub the disaster that will come in everyone's face, we just can't do it. So put on your game faces. Be prepared to explain the issues in layman's terms and offer our solutions in very a positive manner. This is our chance to really turn people on to our movement and let's take full advantage over it!

Posted 11/05/08 09:41 AM Quietman Gainesville, FL

I couldn’t agree with you more smashysmashy.

Posted 11/05/08 09:58 AM spinnikerca Studio City, CA

That is without the write in votes or mail in ballots counted in CA (at least the mail ins turned in at the polls or received the last day.) It shouldn't as much impact Barr, Keyes, McKinney or Nader, since they were on the ballot in CA, but the write in candidates (including Dr Paul and Chuck Baldwin) may well get a fair sized chunk of votes yet, this being a populous state. I went to the registrar's web page to see where the write in votes stood and as of now ZERO have been reported. So those totals above don't include those, unless you have news more recent than I could get from the registrar (please let us know if so).

Posted 11/05/08 09:58 AM Break your chains Byron, GA

Chuck Baldwin was only on the ballot in about 38 states, to my knowledge. He qualified for write-in status on the rest I think, except two? (Someone correct me if I'm wrong.) I'm not expecting there to be a few million write-in votes out there for Chuck still being tallied today, (lol), but I think he probably broke 200,000. The state of Georgia makes this disclaimer about write-in candidates. "The results displayed are UNOFFICIAL AND INCOMPLETE until certified by both county election superintendents and the Secretary of State, a process that will not be completed until the week of November 10. These unofficial returns, transmitted by counties to the Secretary of State's Data Center on election night, are under continuous review for formatting accuracy and are subject to correction at any time. The results below reflect the votes for candidates listed on the ballot for this election. THEY DO NOT INCLUDE VOTES FOR QUALIFIED WRITE-IN CANDIDATES. Results for qualified write-in candidates will only be available upon certification of the election." http://www.sos.georgia.gov/elections/election_results/2008_11 04/001.htm

Posted 11/05/08 10:00 AM StatusQuoJoe Phoenix, AZ

smashysmashy, agreed but we also must consider that this is indeed an engineered plan to cause backlash to the established Rebupli-corp. i.e. a failed democratic congress and administration that opens up the door for another swing to the Fabian (whatever, "establishment") appointed republican. I predict a complete failure of the new administration with all of the challenges and then, to the rescue Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger since the requirement for an American born citizen as president will be rescinded from the constitution under Obama... Paranoia? Perhaps.

Posted 11/05/08 10:01 AM freedom fries stateline, NV

What exactly did Bachman and Goode do to become Liberty PAC members? They both appear to be enemies of liberty and freedom to me.

Posted 11/05/08 10:03 AM intelliot Walnut, CA

What does this mean? "Liberty PAC Wins - Ron Paul, Paul Broun, Roscoe Bartlet, Doug Lamborn, Virgil Goode, Denny Rehberg, Scott Garrett, John Culberson, Michelle Bachman, Walter Jones" What's Liberty PAC?

Posted 11/05/08 10:03 AM Nf7mate Cedar Park, TX

Are all of the winners above incumbents, or did the Liberty PAC win any new seats this election?

Posted 11/05/08 10:04 AM Break your chains Byron, GA

That link to the secretary of state website I provided doesn't copy-paste correctly. Make sure there are no spaces in your address bar before clicking "go-to". Or, go to www.sos.georgia.gov and click on the election results link.

Posted 11/05/08 10:08 AM castiron san jacinto, CA

According to CNN with 100% of precints reporting McClintock50% 155,771 Brown50% 155,320 http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/individual/#val=CAH04

Posted 11/05/08 10:15 AM LizLiz Brooklyn(or Cresco,PA!) , NY

That's a lot of votes that did not go to the major party candidates.. people are waking up! Paul, you get ready for your 2012 election because we will MAKE you! and I'd like to know how we can get our hands on the write in votes.. unless they vanished and went to other candidates (know what I mean?) We're in for a bumpy four years ahead.

Posted 11/05/08 10:15 AM mjcholko Annandale, VA

Though I am not completely sure of all positions of all of the candidates listed a Liberty PAC wins, I have to say that none of them (Dr. Paul aside) are libertarian enough for me. I will not be supporting LPAC financially if the plan is to support candidates who are just the lesser of two evils. Liberty PAC is a political action committee started by Ron Paul for the purpose of supporting the liberty agenda in the political process. C4L is legally limited in what it can do, so LPAC picks up in other areas.

Posted 11/05/08 10:25 AM CarolinaLibertyDOTcm Tobaccoville, NC

I'm encouraged to see so much ingenuity and resourcefulness in a time of such adversity. Thanks smashysmashy for your words; and Tim D, I wish you the best with your group. Stay consistent and steadfast. Our group has been meeting in the Piedmont area of NC (click my username) to discuss liberty and how to live off the grid, fall back to being a citizen of the de jur state of North Carolina, and related issues. This is indeed the greatest time to spread the word. Truly animating. CarolinaLiberty.com Aiming at the roots.

Posted 11/05/08 10:30 AM 512 Austin, TX

Things will get worse for the country but better for liberty and freedom. This is the point where true conservatives feel disenfranchised by the GOP and soon Democrats will feel disillusioned. Obama has over-promised and will certainly under-deliver. He will fail in saving the economy, providing universal health care and propping up the welfare state. The question is will we provide a welcome place for the displaced voters? Will we be able to unite enough people under the banner of Liberty? Our focus shouldn't be arguing the topics but mobilizing a plan to educate others. Here and now is not the time or place to debate Gay marriage/Abortion/Gun laws etc. We need to focus on getting the Federal Government out of that equation. Then take those arguments to you local arenas where they belong.

Posted 11/05/08 10:36 AM StatusQuoJoe Phoenix, AZ

512 I suggest a list showing case by case basis where issues have proven that big government has actually restricted freedoms when the public thought that legislation would ensure those freedoms. It might help to enlighten people.

Posted 11/05/08 10:43 AM 512 Austin, TX

StatusQuoJoe: Good Idea. These are the things we should be discussing.

Posted 11/05/08 11:48 AM wex2175 DAYTON, OH

I am with some on this tread. If will NOT support the likes of people like Michelle Bachman. When I viewed her infamous "unAmerican" dribble, I immediately thought about Rudy hunting down Ron Paul about his debate comments and how they basically branded Paul unAmerican. Is defending our Constitution unAmerican? Is ending the Fed UnAmerican? Is ending endless war UnAmerican?! Is keeping nanny nation busy bodies on the Left and Right out of our lives UnAmerican? She is neocon dope. I will not financially or politically support the likes of Michelle Bachman, those like her, or those who push her as a defender of liberty. Don't make me puke.

Posted 11/05/08 12:10 PM brader@hrw.com Austin, TX

Freedom Fries I will tell you why Michele Bachmann is on the Liberty PAC. She is rabidly anti-bailout, against Congessional overregulation, against the minimum wage and is a true foe of Nancy Pelosi. Besides, she went on Chris Matthews and expressed what many of us were thinking about the bias of the media. And we all know the members of Congress who she was singling out for investigation (thank God for Lew Rockwell). The Obama "thought police" tried to discredit her and deny her First Amendment rights. Thankfully, she she has supporters who understand all of this and saw to it that her voice was not silenced! If you think the Obama "thought police" are bad now, just wait until January 20.

Posted 11/05/08 12:21 PM wex2175 DAYTON, OH

I am with some on this tread. If will NOT support the likes of people like Michelle Bachman. When I viewed her infamous "unAmerican" dribble, I immediately thought about Rudy hunting down Ron Paul about his debate comments and how they basically branded Paul unAmerican. Is defending our Constitution unAmerican? Is ending the Fed UnAmerican? Is ending endless war UnAmerican?! Is keeping nanny nation busy bodies on the Left and Right out of our lives UnAmerican? She is neocon dope. I will not financially or politically support the likes of Michelle Bachman, those like her, or those who push her as a defender of liberty. Don't make me puke. Look, I know that Matthew's is certainly Left, but I have eyes and ears. One can't pawn off her words and responsibility for those words on MSNBC. I listened and understood what the stupid-ass Michelle Bachman was saying in her idiotic Joseph McCarthy fantasyland. By the way, brader, why don't you list the people she was talking about, huh? Too much a coward to say so? I will say again NO financial or political help for those who bloviate on about who is UnAmerican. Drop the F@@@king line, people. Is this what CFL has come too? Neocon backwash?

Posted 11/05/08 12:57 PM brader@hrw.com Austin, TX

wex2175 I know many people are angry today, but rather than resort to name-calling, I will just direct you to the Rockwell Archives and to Vin Suprynowicz's article "It’s Not as Though Anyone Saw It Coming." This is just one source that should give all of us a better idea of who in Congress is working for the taxpayers of America and who is not and why some people are on Ron Paul's Liberty PAC.(Certainly, Friends of Angelo are no friends of Americans.)Chain of Blame: How Wall Street Caused the Mortgage and Credit Crisis by Muolo and Padilla is another good eye-opener. Believe me, I'm not trying to alienate people here and create divisions. I studied economics, the economic history of the United States, and American diplomatic history when in university, and have done much reading on the current economic and political "disfunction" that is rampant today in the United States. By the way, if I had just one recommendation in terms of a recent book that is a must read it would be Andrew Bacevich's (Boston University) The Limits of Power: The End of American Exceptionalism.

Posted 11/05/08 1:23 PM wex2175 DAYTON, OH

I am with some on this tread. If will NOT support the likes of people like Michelle Bachman. When I viewed her infamous "unAmerican" dribble, I immediately thought about Rudy hunting down Ron Paul about his debate comments and how they basically branded Paul unAmerican. Is defending our Constitution unAmerican? Is ending the Fed UnAmerican? Is ending endless war UnAmerican?! Is keeping nanny nation busy bodies on the Left and Right out of our lives UnAmerican? She is neocon dope. I will not financially or politically support the likes of Michelle Bachman, those like her, or those who push her as a defender of liberty. Don't make me puke. Look, I know that Matthew's is certainly Left, but I have eyes and ears. One can't pawn off her words and responsibility for those words on MSNBC. I listened and understood what the stupid-ass Michelle Bachman was saying in her idiotic Joseph McCarthy fantasyland. By the way, brader, why don't you list the people she was talking about, huh? Too much a coward to say so? I will say again NO financial or political help for those who bloviate on about who is UnAmerican. Drop the F@@@king line, people. Is this what CFL has come too? Neocon backwash? Quit trying to hide behind a bunch of books and articles. We know things are a mess, but you can't hide behind books and articles to pull this neocon garbage talk out of the trash. Who is UnAmerican here? Am I unAmerican because I am not intimated to support a war? Am I unAmerican because I support people to live their lives peacefully as they see fit despite society? Am I unAmerican because I don't want to spend gobs of US taxpayer money to hunt down people in Congress? Yeah, that's money well spent! Should we start a Department of UnAmerican Affairs to find the UnAmericans in Congress? In the Senate? In business? In the streets? Those people in Congress are there because people, Americans, voted for them. I don't agree with them or the choices they made, but they did it as an American in this imperfect Republic of ours. To say you are investigating members of Congress as unAmerican is to me the equivalent of investigating all those people that voted for that "UnAmerican" Rep or Senator. They voted for the UnAmerican Rep or Senator. Why not investigate those people as unAmerican? They must be UnAmerican too, right? I don't need books or articles or blogs or YouTube videos to tell me that is wrong.

Posted 11/05/08 1:35 PM Briankuszmar Lauderdale By The Sea, FL

Well it is over and I do not want to sound like I knew however based on the turnout numbers at the primaries and the republicans complete bungling of the last 8 years I knew that the Democrats would pull a win. This is no surprise to me; the only surprise to me is that I lived to see the first non-white president of the United States. A problem for me? Of course not, in fact I think it shows the world that the United States is a diverse country and racism is on a downward trend, otherwise this could have never happened. The only good thing about this whole election... Now, first most everyone should know that I did not and could not support either candidate and felt that they both have/will lead this country down the wrong path, I still believe this. Obama fans, I hate to tell you but Obama will not do ANY better than a McCain/Palin if they had won, both men/parties have lied through their teeth to try and win this election, Both men and their Parties are the SAME people that have brought us this faltering and soon to fail economy, think it's bad now? You have not seen anything yet. Sorry, but now that the elections are over you will see the sad truth again. Both of these parties agree on one thing, robbing us blind, there are barely a handful of fiscal conservatives in both parties, the current Federal Government of Democrats and Republicans will Spend/Tax and Print there way out of this mess we are heading into. So Obama fans, Enjoy the brief moment of trust you have for this man and for McCain fans, quit whining, your guy would have been just as bad in a different way in the long run. I do have another future prediction; it is HIGHLY unlikely that a democrat will be elected after these four years are up, why? We are headed for a financial meltdown, our leaders will continue what they are doing (Both Parties) of supporting HORRIBLE fiscal policies, Letting the Fed get away with robbing us blind, bailing out all there wall street/banking buddies, continuing to ignore our large boomer population who will soon suck the system dry. In fact, if Obama does the typical tax/spend policies that Democrats have always supported, we will only go to financial hell faster (so to speak). After all this Americans will blame the economy on Obama and the Democrats and a reversal will happen with the republicans grabbing the Whitehouse, of course they will do no better in the long run. Change? Change my ass, you watch. And for what it is worth, I would say the same thing to McCain if he had the "Change" mantra. This country needs no new change, what we need is to go back to what made this country strong, a Government that does not rob it's people blind through taxes, solid money backed by something, a truly free market place and a fiscally conservative government (Conservative with OUR money, you and I) and a solid Constitution, However. Here is what will happen the next four years, the economy will falter even worse, we WILL see higher unemployment, a dollar worth less than ever in history, lack of faith in the United States economy by the rest of the world, the sucking sound of the world pulling money out of treasuries and possible China becoming the World economic leader for many years to come and worst of all a US Government unable to keep it's promises to the growing senior population on Social Security and Medicare. (Did you Notice in this election that neither party discussed this looming disaster?) What does this mean to Obama/Democrats? Well first, they will inherit a world of crap for the next four years, they will bungle it as bad as they always have, they will be blamed for the whole mess, no one will vote democrat because the illusion will be that they alone created the mess, however this will be far from the truth. The truth is, both parities have screwed us royally, today and in the near future, George Carlin said it best, America is great, and we have 1000 different breakfast cereals and only TWO political parties. Folks, if you want real change, do not look for it from either of these two parties. The only real change you will ever get is if we get a few more parties heavily involved in Washington and break this strangle hold of idiocy by the current two party system. That's just my take on it. Brian Kuszmar LBTS, Fla. Ron Paul Supporter and Libertarian at heart.

Posted 11/05/08 1:55 PM brader@hrw.com Austin, TX

Bryan, My mother lives in Sunny Isles Beach, just south of Hallandale Beach. She believes Obama walks on water. Maybe he'll come to her by way of the Atlantic Ocean or maybe he'll just cross the Intercoastal Canal.

Posted 11/05/08 3:34 PM Briankuszmar Lauderdale By The Sea, FL

Well it is over and I do not want to sound like I knew however based on the turnout numbers at the primaries and the republicans complete bungling of the last 8 years I knew that the Democrats would pull a win. This is no surprise to me; the only surprise to me is that I lived to see the first non-white president of the United States. A problem for me? Of course not, in fact I think it shows the world that the United States is a diverse country and racism is on a downward trend, otherwise this could have never happened. The only good thing about this whole election... Now, first most everyone should know that I did not and could not support either candidate and felt that they both have/will lead this country down the wrong path, I still believe this. Obama fans, I hate to tell you but Obama will not do ANY better than a McCain/Palin if they had won, both men/parties have lied through their teeth to try and win this election, Both men and their Parties are the SAME people that have brought us this faltering and soon to fail economy, think it's bad now? You have not seen anything yet. Sorry, but now that the elections are over you will see the sad truth again. Both of these parties agree on one thing, robbing us blind, there are barely a handful of fiscal conservatives in both parties, the current Federal Government of Democrats and Republicans will Spend/Tax and Print there way out of this mess we are heading into. So Obama fans, Enjoy the brief moment of trust you have for this man and for McCain fans, quit whining, your guy would have been just as bad in a different way in the long run. I do have another future prediction; it is HIGHLY unlikely that a democrat will be elected after these four years are up, why? We are headed for a financial meltdown, our leaders will continue what they are doing (Both Parties) of supporting HORRIBLE fiscal policies, Letting the Fed get away with robbing us blind, bailing out all there wall street/banking buddies, continuing to ignore our large boomer population who will soon suck the system dry. In fact, if Obama does the typical tax/spend policies that Democrats have always supported, we will only go to financial hell faster (so to speak). After all this Americans will blame the economy on Obama and the Democrats and a reversal will happen with the republicans grabbing the Whitehouse, of course they will do no better in the long run. Change? Change my ass, you watch. And for what it is worth, I would say the same thing to McCain if he had the "Change" mantra. This country needs no new change, what we need is to go back to what made this country strong, a Government that does not rob it's people blind through taxes, solid money backed by something, a truly free market place and a fiscally conservative government (Conservative with OUR money, you and I) and a solid Constitution, However. Here is what will happen the next four years, the economy will falter even worse, we WILL see higher unemployment, a dollar worth less than ever in history, lack of faith in the United States economy by the rest of the world, the sucking sound of the world pulling money out of treasuries and possible China becoming the World economic leader for many years to come and worst of all a US Government unable to keep it's promises to the growing senior population on Social Security and Medicare. (Did you Notice in this election that neither party discussed this looming disaster?) What does this mean to Obama/Democrats? Well first, they will inherit a world of crap for the next four years, they will bungle it as bad as they always have, they will be blamed for the whole mess, no one will vote democrat because the illusion will be that they alone created the mess, however this will be far from the truth. The truth is, both parities have screwed us royally, today and in the near future, George Carlin said it best, America is great, and we have 1000 different breakfast cereals and only TWO political parties. Folks, if you want real change, do not look for it from either of these two parties. The only real change you will ever get is if we get a few more parties heavily involved in Washington and break this strangle hold of idiocy by the current two party system. That's just my take on it. Brian Kuszmar LBTS, Fla. Ron Paul Supporter and Libertarian at heart.

Posted 11/05/08 4:50 PM mcheffer Tucson, AZ

Most of those people suck. I won't be supporting any of them

Posted 11/05/08 5:33 PM chaoslord Deltona, FL

I can only see that either a lot of people in this movement gave up and voted the lesser of two evils or are just out of the picture now. I know a few people who near the election decided to just vote McCain as the lesser of two evils out of fear. Those numbers are low. Me and my wife both voted Chuck Baldwin. Personally I think it is time to start preping for 2012. There is no time to lose. We need to save money so we can all donat the max, it would be great to identify someone who will run and represent us as soon as possible. I am not sure if Ron Paul will be willing to run and while we know he is in excellent condition many may note vote him because of the age he will be in 2012. I would vote for him though. The sooner we get a plan of action and get this moving the more support we can build between now and then.

Posted 11/05/08 6:22 PM canaandavis Groves, TX

great progress guys

Posted 11/05/08 6:53 PM Dr Dave Botsford, CT

I rest my case. 3rd party should compromise and get a single candidate set up for 2012. As for change. It's not the change they want, it's the big bills in your wallet.

Posted 11/05/08 6:56 PM abaporia2 Mill Valley, CA

Voted for Paul as an official write-in candidate in California, But in no way will I ever support the likes of Michelle Bachman, and some of the other members in the Liberty Pac.

Posted 11/05/08 9:05 PM David Fischer Altoona, IA

Here's some good news: Missouri State Rep. Jim Guest was re-elected with 57% of the vote. Jim came to Iowa several times and worked hard for Ron Paul back before the caucuses.

Posted 11/05/08 9:10 PM astrotrain1000 Vidor, TX

Well, I certainly don't believe in supporting candidates I don't believe in. I don't even know what a PAC does, but if the Liberty PAC is lead by Dr. Paul and he can use that authority to influence votes, then I think its worth supporting. Someone mentioned they didn't like some of these candidates and wouldn't choose the lesser of two evils. Well, what do you do when there are only two? Do you skip that category? If there are republicans that are willing to stand with Dr. Paul when a Libertartian is not even on the ballot, then you're not choosing the lesser of two evils.

Posted 11/05/08 9:32 PM JohnF Lake Mary, FL

To those of you asking what Liberty PAC is, it is the legal entity which raises funding and support for certain candidates at the state and federal level. The website is: http://www.libertypac.net/. Some of you have stated that you will not support some of these candidates...If that's the case, then either run for office yourself or get out of the way. Unfortunately, Ron Paul cannot fill every Congressional seat, sit on every seat in the Supreme Court and be President of the United States all at the same time. C4L and Liberty PAC are not political, ideological movements per se. By that, I mean that they are neither liberal, conservative nor libertarian etc. This is why Ron Paul had a press conference with Nader and McKinney, two people with which he disagrees on a number of things. The point of all this is that it's time to make some compromises on a few things so we can work together on the bigger picture: preserving our freedom before it's too late. If we fail to do this and let ourselves become divided, we will never succeed (in fact, our opponents COUNT on dividing us). The rest can be sorted out later. It's easy to find ways in which we differ. It's easier still to find what we agree upon. My question is, if you can't put aside certain issues and focus on the four main pillars of C4L: Foreign Policy, National Debt, Privacy and The Fed, then why are you here? This is the point of this website. It's not to get libertarian, conservative or liberal policies passed. Preserving the Constitution should cut across ideological barriers.

Posted 11/05/08 9:46 PM Don Rasmussen Baltimore, MD

JohnF - Well said sir.

Posted 11/05/08 10:20 PM mjcholko Annandale, VA

JohnF & Don - I understand that not everyone will agree on every issue, and it is fine to support someone who you agree with on most things even if you disagree on a few. Further, I agree that "preserving the constitution should cut across ideological barries." However, if the C4L (or LPAC) exists to promote the compromising of values for political expediency then it is no better than the major parties. I like C4L in theory, but it seems to me that the Ron Paul movement (the rEVOLution, if you prefer) has devolved into something much less pure than it originally was. At this point, I find myself much more comfortable working within the Libertarian Party than working with C4L. Of course, I will continue to keep an eye on things here and will lend my support to causes that I believe are good ones.

Posted 11/05/08 10:25 PM mjcholko Annandale, VA

One more thing JohnF- I do not appreciate your comment "either run for office yourself or get out of the way." This is a totally ridiculous thing to say. So, if I don't support a candidate the LPAC supports then I am in the way of liberty? I am not allowed to choose who I support unless I run for office? If we don't agree with the C4L we must be wrong. And shame on you Don R for giving his comment your thumbs up!

Posted 11/05/08 11:21 PM JohnF Lake Mary, FL

"One more thing JohnF- I do not appreciate your comment 'either run for office yourself or get out of the way.' This is a totally ridiculous thing to say. So, if I don't support a candidate the LPAC supports then I am in the way of liberty? I am not allowed to choose who I support unless I run for office?" You're putting words in my mouth. My point is that if you can't support the candidates the PAC supports, than you're not really behind the thrust of this movement. I think I'm right in this assumption because of something you said: "At this point, I find myself much more comfortable working within the Libertarian Party than working with C4L." The point was not to say that you can't do what you want. My comment was in the context of C4L. If you want to use your energy in the Libertarian party, that's great. Even within the confines of libertarianism, there are many divisions and disagreements, though.

Posted 11/05/08 11:48 PM HenryKnoxFineBooks Rougemont, NC

Walter Jones is a good congressman from NC, and an ally of Paul's. While true that he voted for the Iraq War, he quickly became one of the most outspoken republicans against it. These are EXACTLY the types of candidates we should be helping. They aren't "the lesser of two evils", but are rather the "better" or the good of the lot. And people who have not contributed to LPAC really shouldn't be complaining...

Posted 11/06/08 05:07 AM libertarian4321 San Antonio, TX

Michelle Bachman? Are you kidding? She may be fiscally conservative to a degree, but she's not pro-liberty. She's a far right social conservative (one might even say religious zealot) who has a history of favoring "bans" of behaviors that she doesn't approve of. She also seems to be a warmongering neocon (she wasn't in Congress when the war started, though). Of course, most of us are familiar with her appearance on Hardball. This is not the kind of person we should be supporting. Frankly, I'm embarrassed to see her name on the CFL web site. Are we willing to sell our souls just because she agrees with us on some items?

Posted 11/06/08 05:08 AM libertarian4321 San Antonio, TX

Michelle Bachman? Are you kidding? She may be fiscally conservative to a degree, but she's not pro-liberty. She's a far right social conservative (one might even say religious zealot) who has a history of favoring "bans" of behaviors that she doesn't approve of. She also seems to be a warmongering neocon (she wasn't in Congress when the war started, though). Of course, most of us are familiar with her appearance on Hardball. This is not the kind of person we should be supporting. Frankly, I'm embarrassed to see her name on the CFL web site. Are we willing to sell our souls just because she agrees with us on some items?

Posted 11/06/08 05:18 AM libertarian4321 San Antonio, TX

"it's time to make some compromises on a few things so we can work together on the bigger picture" I agree with this, to a degree. I'm not looking for ideological purity- I can support candidates who are mostly in the right. But Michelle Bachmann? She isn't even close. Even a broken clock is right twice a day. Doesn't make it a good clock. Bachmann might vote right once in a while. Doesn't make her a good person, a good congresswoman, or worthy of our support.

Posted 11/06/08 05:19 AM libertarian4321 San Antonio, TX

Michelle Bachman? Are you kidding? She may be fiscally conservative to a degree, but she's not pro-liberty. She's a far right social conservative (one might even say religious zealot) who has a history of favoring "bans" of behaviors that she doesn't approve of. She also seems to be a warmongering neocon (she wasn't in Congress when the war started, though). Of course, most of us are familiar with her appearance on Hardball. This is not the kind of person we should be supporting. Frankly, I'm embarrassed to see her name on the CFL web site. Are we willing to sell our souls just because she agrees with us on some items?

Posted 11/06/08 05:32 AM libertarian4321 San Antonio, TX

Okay, I have no idea why my first post keeps repeating- I'm not doing anything to make it happen. Sorry about the repost.

Posted 11/06/08 10:14 AM HenryKnoxFineBooks Rougemont, NC

Bachmann has voted with Ron Paul over 70% of the time.

Posted 11/06/08 7:32 PM Modern Day Patriot Danville, IA

Did Massachusetts legalize possession of marijuana? If not, how can it be considered decriminalized? I read that they will still pay a $100 fine, and still have it confiscated. Still doesn't sound good. But better than getting sent to prison, I guess. It needs to be legalized 100% everywhere. It's not dangerous, and it's not immoral to use it. In fact, it was considered a crime in colonial times NOT to grow it, and it was legal to pay taxes with it!

Posted 11/08/08 05:25 AM jawright90803 Long Beach, CA

I just wanted to vent a bit, hope this is the appropriate place. First of all let me say Dr. Paul's message of freedom liberty and personal responsibility resonates very strongly with me, and I believe his message of grass roots involvement and civil disobedience is the best course FOR NOW. Getting back to BASIC (and I emphasize basis because we have because we have the tools to take back our government in the simple text of the constitution if we would just hold our representatives accountable to their pledge to uphold and defend IT)constitutional government. This simple eloquent profound beautiful and yet imperfect document(as far as any man is capable of producing) is the foundation, the basis, the soul,the heart the very air that we breath, of this nation we hold so dear. I truly believe it is the only path to true liberty and freedom. If we can not find our way back we our lost! I started this post just to say, what kind of commentary is it on our society where we need to spend hundreds of millions of the citizens dollars just to protect our leaders, yet our neighbors leaders to the north can drive themselves to work. Thank You for your time and patience. Keep up the good fight! or we shall surely lose the battle. J.W. Long Beach California